Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - takin

Pages: [1]
1
General Discussion / Re: flexitarians
« on: October 11, 2011, 11:12:07 AM »
Here you won’t hear weakening of the movement? Are you kidding? This is where the movement is bashed from top to bottom, left to right. I don’t know of any place that considers less of the movement. Slideshow after slideshow, paragraph after paragraph they come down on the movement for being, anthropocentrist and speciesist, incapable of making any influence (and if you read Trends even strengthening some industries), they highly criticize legislation, veganism and even the use of the term rights itself.
And I am not sure they see themselves as part of the liberation movement to any degree at all.

2
Discussions about specific materials / Re: Nudity
« on: December 02, 2009, 07:25:52 AM »
We can’t. People don’t listen. Some means of provocation are needed and nudity is very appealing. Moreover, what is wrong with showing people that there are other ways to entertain ourselves and each other and for such a good cause?
And regarding the sexism and objectification, everyone is doing that out of their own free will and again for a good cause, for the sake of animals so I don’t understand what your problem is. And about chauvinism, maybe you are misinformed but men are allowed and indeed choose to run naked as well.

3
Discussions about specific materials / Re: Trends
« on: October 26, 2009, 04:34:29 PM »
I read the most selfish argument discussion and it made me watch the article of course. I find it very strong and truthful and sad in the end.
I think the fact that McDonalds and the fur industry got strengthen means a lot but as I said I didn’t think that us activists and especially not the type that the o.o.s are looking for, need this kind of message, but after reading this discussion and the admin’s long and thorough respond and especially watching the article again, I guess you are right Earth to Venus I did focused to much on what the article says about the activists and not on the public the activists want to change. It was much clearer in the second time.

4
Discussions about specific materials / Re: Trends
« on: October 20, 2009, 11:32:48 PM »
About the article you mentioned, I did see it and liked it very much, but I fail to see the connection. Anthropocentric environmentalists clearly and convincingly show how non vegan environmentalists are hypocrite and inconsistent with their views and actions, how absurd is the notion of meat eating environmentalist defending endangered species, so I understand this article relevancy to oos approach, that you cant even build on your supposedly allies. But it is about environmental activists not environmental trend, and because of that it was easier for me to relate to. I don’t think we should act according to what is hip so I am not excited with the green trend and I will not infer dispirit conclusions when it will be over.
The fact that activists’ arguments and actions are so lame is depressing me much more than the current mainstream drift. That’s why I liked Anthropocentric environmentalists and why I am ambivalent with trends.

I haven’t heard about this guy tom naughton until now and according to his website I just surfed in, it’s an asshole responding to an asshole. My point was that spurlock is not one of us. The movie is not about our issues and you can always find assholes like these two, it doesn’t prove anything.
Morgan Spurlock was a meat eater before the making of the movie and he stayed a meat eater after it. Even though it is not a movie about vegetarianism the expectation that the creator will at least consider vegetarianism after all he learned, saw and heard. And even that didn’t happen, so how much of an example did the filmmaker himself gives the viewers if nothing he learned during that time convinced him to quit the corpse devouring. Nothing he saw, heard or read changed him, not even us vegans dream… living with a vegan chef as a life partner.

5
Discussions about specific materials / Re: Trends
« on: October 18, 2009, 11:57:51 AM »
Thanks I’ll read it soon

6
Discussions about specific materials / Trends
« on: October 16, 2009, 11:53:24 AM »
I am a little ambivalent about this one. It is by no doubt impressive and interesting by itself but I am not sure about its relevancy in this website. I am not quite sure who is it meant for? I understand your general message but don’t understand the relevancy to grassroots activists like me and my friends except that all the examples you gave have something to do with animal exploitation.
It starts with criticism on events that I personally am against and so does anyone I know. It is clear that the live earth show won’t save the planet but closing factory farms and putting a massive pressure on big and contaminating corporations and on governments who let that happen even though it directly hurts the ones elected them. I don’t think Al gore can be taken seriously so I personally don’t feel the need to refer to him and I don’t understand the serious reference he got in your article.  
And about the fur campaign and the dependency on celebrities, the sexism and etc, I think your address is PETA not the whole movement, and they already have and still are very much criticized inside the movement and out, for example by Gary Francione.
Failure is just a matter of time when it comes to celebrity based provocative campaigns. Placing models in the front instead of animal rights activist was a mistake that shot back like a boomerang once a fat enough contract was offered. It’s PETA’s failure on the fur campaign and in general their tactics are not very representative. I doubt there’re any serious activists siding with the policy of spending half of the annual budget on a 30 seconds ad of models masturbating with vegetables for example.

About Supersize me, the movie is about the question of self responsibility and whether corporate rule doesn’t daze it to the point of blocking any possibility to take personal responsibility for one’s actions. The question the movie is trying to answer is whether corporations’ invasive ads and marketing methods neutralize the ability of people to think for themselves and take the responsibility for their actions and if the answer is yes then there is a case in the prosecution of the two teenagers accusing McDonalds for their obesity which I remind you was Morgan’s inspiration to make the film in the first place. It is not about meat it is a bout a corporation that sells meat. It could have been haagen dazs or pizza hut or Hershey’s or any other corporation that sells fat foot that eating much of it can cause obesity. The aim wasn’t to create a vegetarian trend and so can’t be an argument against the use of trends. Not that I am for the use of trends I just don’t see the movie as a relevant example.

7
Discussions about specific materials / culinary investigation
« on: September 15, 2009, 06:40:53 PM »
I want to comment about the slideshow culinary investigation.
There is no contradiction between the argument that if people knew how actually fascinating the vegan kitchen is, they would stop eating animal products and the fact that they look for new interesting food all the time. On the contrary, if they knew how rich and diverse vegan food is they wouldn’t look for new foods as they just found it.

8
Discussions about specific materials / Re: true but selfish
« on: September 15, 2009, 06:08:44 PM »
leave the cardio vascular diseases to the physicians and concentrate on being the voice of the most oppressed group in history.

What better way to help animals than to advocate veganism, each vegan in his lifetime rises the issues (first among them is the animal right issue) hundred times a year.
I’d gladly leave it to the doctors, but they are just as conformed as the rest of the nation. I don’t want to spend time on nutrition but protein deficiency myths are an issue no one else is addressing.   

9
Discussions about specific materials / Re: the most ambivalent argument
« on: September 10, 2009, 12:06:50 PM »
I agree
In advocating veganism it’s legitimate to use all the tools you’ve got.
The aim is to make others realize how insane an animal based diet is, from all perspectives and angles (unless you are a CCF member or their banker)
Meat eating is a lose-lose-lose situation and no one says so. If the facts are on your side why not use them?
I don’t think we should hide the fact that an animal based diet doesn’t fit the human physiology and causes a wide range of deadly diseases just so we’d be able to say we appeal only to the moral basis and care about nothing else.

There is nothing desperate about telling the truth, if you want desperate go after prop 2 and its like.

10
Discussions about specific materials / Re: 50 billion cripples
« on: September 04, 2009, 02:44:37 PM »
I just want to add a seemingly technical comment which I find important (about the ideological issue I am still thinking so I will comment about it later). Since it is a moral issue that counts suffer and not death toll, you shouldn’t consider casualties only but their families’ and friends’ suffer too and of course every wounded during that horrible period.

Pages: [1]
TinyPortal © 2005-2015